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July 01, 2005

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Edw.

Did you read Howard Bryant's take on Foulke's comments?

I think Bryant is spot on with why Foulke's Burger King remarks touched such a nerve among fans, including my own.

beth

i can't read the article unless i subscribe, but i'll try to find a print edition sometime today. i've heard (in the radio discussion) about the p.o.v. that the comments are basically foulke's way of rubbing his salary in people's faces. i can see where people would have that opinion but i disagree with it. i think some people looking for reasons to antagonize foulke because they aren't happy with his performance, and i really can't understand why people are riding him so much. it's not going to make him pitch better, at the very least.

maybe he was wrong to say what he did, but to me for fans to fire back, and then foulke fires back again, and then everyone hates each other, is bad for the team and for us in the long run because it may drive foulke out of town.

but i'm aware i'm in the minority here. i might be the one who's wrong in this situation. maybe i should be pissed at foulke, but he's pretty much my binky and i can't find it in my heart to condemn him.

beth

ok, i went to bugmenot.com and got a login for the herald site. it is:

laraine8@yahoo.com
password: redsox

and read the bryant column. i still don't agree with it entirely, but i see his point, and it's a good counterpoint to maz and my post. thanks, edw., for bringing it up.

Ktech

Beth - I'm on the line with you. I am constantly amazed at the nit picking that is going on over this. With the media here it is damned if you do damned if you don't. God forbid that he didn't show that he was ticked off after Tuesdays game, then they'd be accusing him of not caring like they did of Manny last week (of course that has all been forgotten now he is hitting again) or heck Nomar sitting in the dugout while Jeter is swan diving into the stands... I personally think the sports media here is just itching for Schilling to be back.They talk to the man 5 minutes after a blow up and expect 'who's your daddy' or some other gem that they can latch onto. Instead they completely missed the point of what he was saying because all they hear is 'johnny from burger king'. I grew up in a working class city, Sox fan from birth, going to games, watching games etc but apparently I am missing the insult. My guess is these are the same people who missed the sarcasm in the 'truck' comment 2 weeks ago. Give it a week someone else will say something to start a new feeding frenzy.

Boston Fan in Michigan

In the past I have, and in the future I plan to continue to rag on Foulke for his performance on the field (or lack thereof). I haven't touched his off-field comments yet, and unless he says something truly inflammatory I probably won't. I figure, as a fan, and one who sinks whatever small monies a college student can acquire into the team, I am entitled to rag on him when he sucks. He can rag back, though.

Boston Fan in Michigan

And 'He can rag back' is probably a complete misuse of the word 'rag' as a verb, but I am Blogger! I twist English language to my own sick purposes! Mwah ha ha ha ha.

annette

I've been thinking a lot about Foulke's comment lately. And while I honestly don't really care, I think the link Edw. posted is most on target, if still slightly off (in my opinion).

See, I don't think it's the "money" issue per say that has irked people. It's the actual reference to Burger King. It's a fast food joint. Think of your notions of a fast food worker. If you're anything like me, you think that they're "low class". That they're the people who dropped out of school, who couldn't find anything else to do. They're not as smart as you. In short, to be completely honest, when you sit down and think about, you'd consider the average fast food worker "beneath you". They're a greasy, pimply teenager who you don't want to be identified with. Being a fast food worker is not a socially acceptable endevor.

And that is why Foulke's comments have irritated so many of the masses, whether they realize it or not. He essentially placed the fan as someone below him, someone not worthy of being associated with. I'd bet that you that if you took his exact same quote and replaced Johnny from Burger King with the fans, we'd be agreeing with him and going, he should be more embaressed to face his teammates! But with what he said, it touched a nerve. People generally don't like to feel inferior.

beth

i see what you mean, annette, but i still think it's a stretch and reading too much into the comment. maybe not you or edw., but many seem to be looking for an excuse to go house on foulke and what it boils down to is his performance this season, which i also don't think has been as atrocious--if you look at the overall outcome win-loss wise--as it has seemed anecdotally.

i don't really think people who took offense are necessarily trying to do this? but i feel strongly that if the he-said she-said keeps going we might be cutting off our noses as a Nation. somebody's gotta stop the shit-talking when we're all supposed to be on the same side. i think it should be us--we need him, no matter how ugly a proposition that seems. he's doing badly, sure, but he's doing badly for keith foulke. in general, i still don't see a viable replacement in the league--though i'd be happy to hear other people's ideas on that.

Boston Fan in Michigan

Beth, I was just talking about this with my brother, He Who Follows The Entire Fucking League and If You Think I'm Insane About Following Many Teams I'm Not Nearly As Bad As This Kid. Apparently there have been rumors of Brian Fuentes, who is a SICK reliever... he's been putting up a 2.75 ERA, in Colorado. That deal would take serious prospects on our end, though, and I'm generally opposed to dealing really good prospects for something as mutable as relief pitching, but it's out there.

There's also been chatter about Brewer Ricky Bottalico, who's been putting up tolerable numbers but, most interestingly, was born in CT and is rumored to be willing to 'give his left arm to pitch for the Sox'. Which is cool, 'cause he's a righty.

Runan

I'm so sick of this Foulke controversy. I, for one, have NO problem whatsoever with what he said. Hell, if I had snarky media types in my face after a tough loss, I would snark right back. It's called being human.

_m

I think a good deal of it has to do with (surprise, surprise), the media in Boston. There's a new story about Keith apologizing on on boston.com at the moment, and, in context, you see that it is a joke... I know the writers have to do their job and stir up readership, whether that means being entirely accurate or omitting a few lines here and there to provide better quotes for copy, but still.
I've been wracking my brains, trying to think how it was better (it probably wasn't, necessarily) in the past, or what could be done to fix it, but can't think of anything except maybe putting Shaughnessy (I know he's not to blame here, but he's really been struggling with decent stories these days) on a spit as an example to all the other journalists and hope they all fall in line.

Boston Fan in Michigan

Look, I know Beth is defending Foulke because he's her chew toy, and that is right and proper and good. But we all have to understand that the Boston media is never going to be a bunch of kittens when it comes to baseball. That's part and parcel of playing here. Would it be nice if they didn't run players out of town on a rail sometimes? Sure. Do I want them nice and tame like they're, I don't know, the Milwaukee media covering the Brewers? Fuck no.

Sammy

Hey, Stanton and Quantrill are available if we're not happy with KF. nuff said. oops, just heard Quantrill was dealt to the Pods. Guess that wraps up the pennant for SD.

Earl

I hate the booing, and I agree that the nitpicking over those comments were ridiculous. But there's some unfortunate context there, showing he is a bit money-obsessed; when asked whether he'd prefer to start or close, he responded "I like to pitch. Honestly, what I like about closing, I love the first and 15th day [of the month]. That's payday." [Hartford Courant, June 16]

In any case, he's been terrible. In save/win situations his ERA is 8.75; one run an inning. His winning record and nice Sv/BS ratio are therefore largely a product of luck. There really are some trade possibilities out there, so we'll be seeing someone new this month...

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