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February 03, 2008

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Andrew Farrar

Shameful performance from Brady - he was like a rabbit caught in headlights. The guy's supposed to be the best in the business. He's taken the plaudits all season, but he was truly awful tonight - clueless.

But huge congratulations to the Giants - they out fought and out thought the Patriots offence. I excuse the Patriots defence of any blame - they held the Giants to a reasonable total.

Beth

yeah, andrew, i saw the rabbit / headlights thing the first time you left it in the comments thread for the last post. btw it's deer in the headlights, not rabbit.

Andrew Farrar

In England it's rabbits, dear.

beth

well, look, i know you're not the biggest brady fan and it's not like his performance was great tonight, that i'll concede. but it's not like he went out there all by himself and fell on his face. the giants pass rush had a lot to do with it, to say nothing of the offensive line, which got its ass handed to it all night long.

Allen

The O-line looked like absolute crap. I'm not sure how else the QB is supposed to look when his protection is getting overrun on nearly every down. Brady made the most of the opportunities he was given, and wasn't given enough of them. He doesn't escape blame, but I think it's hard to come down on him about his play if you're a person who even attempts to be fair about those sorts of things.

Beth - excellent stuff, as always.

Patrick Patterson

I can't say that I am disappointed by the outcome, but it was a hell of a game.

And Beth, you neglected to mention the reason that I was ecstaticed to the Pats go down. That blatant bad call in the snow, January 2002.

Craig

"Shameful performance from Brady - he was like a rabbit caught in headlights. The guy’s supposed to be the best in the business. He’s taken the plaudits all season, but he was truly awful tonight - clueless."

It wasn't Brady. It was the offensive line who couldn't handle the Giant's front 7 and the blitz packages they mixed up and disguised. They were all over Brady and he rarely had sufficient time to throw downfield.

Andrew Farrar

I know you don't like to see people delivering home truths about your beloved quarterback, young beth, but I'm sure you'll recall that I said quite a while back that complacency could kill Patriot hopes.

Those whom the Gods would destroy they first make complacent.

Brady's fannied around for the best part of half of the season and just got away with it. Last night his luck ran out.

While the Lesser Manning fought tooth and nail to win the game, Brady went down like a sack of spuds everytime a Giant got near him.

The only offensive player worthy of praise is Welker.

beth

andrew, you've been responded to on this count not once, and not just by me, but three times, by three different people. i don't know what else to say to you at this point.

Andrew Farrar

Well, you could start by acknowledging that I was right and everyone who disagreed with me was wrong.

beth

LOL are you for real? yeah, that would make life a lot easier around here, wouldn't it? if i would just acknowledge that you're right about everything, and that the multiple people, including myself, who gave cogent arguments that disagree with you are wrong? "yes, andrew, suddenly and for no reason, i see that you've been right the whole time! tom brady totally sucks! thank you for helping me see the light!" that's hilarious.

Andrew Farrar

Unlike you, I don't believe in sacred cows.

I said if Brady continued to fanny around New England wouldn't win the Super Bowl. Now, forgive me if I'm wrong, but when I went to bed New England had lost the Super Bowl. And the reason for that? Brady, pure and simple. He was complacent and hardly put in any effort. His throwing was by and large terrible and he went down like a sack of spuds as soon as anyone touched him.

beth

you can keep repeating your argument, and keep putting words in my mouth about why i disagree, and i'm still gonna disagree. sorry.

Andrew Farrar

That's because you lack objectivity. As far as you're concerned "your" quarterback is a sacred cow above reproach.

Alex Benesowitz

to answer your question "But here’s another question, for anyone still reading: can we stop now? With the sour grapes? And SpyGate? And searching, hunting, digging for ways to prove the Patriots’ run over these last few years has been unfair in any way?"

The pats cheated and when you cheat you don't win ask barry bonds. PLUS THEY GOT CAUGHT RED HANDED!!! HOW CAN YOU SAY THAT EVERYONES SEARCHING FOR A REASON?!?!?! Karma sucks doesn't it pats fans?

"If we’re to believe the Patriots are inveterate cheaters, that all their past accomplishments have been built on dishonesty and unfair advantage, why would they have picked tonight to stop?"

They couldn't cheat for this game they had police officers guarding N.Y.s practices!!! If the Giants, the NFL and the Arizona PD had to go as far as THAT to make sure the Pats didn't cheat somethings wrong man, somethings wrong. As a New Yorker it feels good to shutup the entire Boston area up finally!!!

As far as the Pats being gracious losers that is def not the case either. Belichick after he thought the game was over with 1 second remaining before the Giants kneeled it left the field and didn't even stick around. He just went into the locker room like the cry baby he is, waaaaa waaaaaa, go back to the office and think of ways you can cheat for next season.YOU GUYS HAD IT COMING NOW DON'T TRY AND MAKE EXCUSES FOR LOSING!!! YOU GUYS LOST THE PATS O-LINE WAS DOMINATED!!! BOTTOM LINE PATS ARE THE BIGGEST CHOKE ARTISTS IN THE HISTORY OF PROFESSIONAL SPORTS!!! 18-1!!! 18-1!!!! HAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHA

Alex Benesowitz

Thats what you guys get for running up the score all year long!!!

Andrew Farrar

No, that's what New England get for not continuing to run up the score - there's nothing wrong with scoring as many points as you can.

beth

alex, your incoherent comment proves my point. you seriously believe that the giants won because they had better police protection at their practices? is that all it took? give me a break.

belichick went out to midfield and pushed security people aside so he could HUG tom coughlin. the referees had this ridiculous fixation on running out the single second on the clock, and having already congratulated the opposing coaches, bill belichick left the field. that's all that happened. but apparently it's not enough for you to gloat about the win, you've got to find some ridiculous paranoid interpretation of bill belichick's actions after the game to fixate on? why? what's the point? why is it even important?

beth

btw, the pats are not the biggest choke artists in the history of professional sports--that title still belongs to the new york yankees.

Alex Benesowitz

hahaha my comments were "incoherent" because i just woke up after a night of drinking so cut me some slack. Also come on its not the refs fault for having to play out the final second of the game the commish would've came down on them hard for not playing out the final second. I didnt say bill was wrong for not shaking coughlins hand cuz he did i am saying hes wrong for walking off the field.

And hey the one game we were all guaranteed the pats didnt cheat they lost hmmmmmmm. As far as the yankees choking who cares im a mets fan and we have santana so we will see you in the world series (if the sox make it).

and andrew,

Its messed up to keep your best players in throwing down the field to the best receiver in football when you're up 42-10 in the 4th quarter come on man. Even if i were a pats fan i wouldn't think that would be right.

Jamie

Alex

Who;s making excuses fro losing. I read nothing in Beth's article to suggest otherwise, and to say th eonly way the Pats won was by cheating shows that you know nothing about the game of football. Until the facts come out about the new allegations, you or I really shouldn't have much to say on the matter.

Andrew

The loss, as I have said, was a team loss. Both sides of the ball had their chances to step up and BOTH faltered. The offensive line is partly to blame for not giving Brady the time to throw the football. The coaching staff also should bear a significant amount of blame because I saw NO gameplan adjustments to deal with the pressure. They didn't keep in extra TE's, the RB's rarely stayed in to block, the wide receiver screen was used sparingly, the 3-step drop wasn't utilized, no draw play, I could go on and on.

chargerfan

The Patriots' cheating is not really an issue; the NFL is almost certainly full lof such things. The reasons it is treated as a big deal are:

They were caught

They almost went 19-0

They have long been held up as a model, classy franchise by an adoring media.

So, it will "stop" at the same time that Brady is not held up as a hero by the media and Belichick as a genius--that is to say, never.

In terms of fan culture, if a lot of people are hating your team, that means you are winning a lot, so you might want to let Patriothaters have the moment, realizing that it is simply part of the price you pay for rooting for a great dynasty.

As a Charger fan, I had mixed emotions about the game--I sort of wanted to see Seau get a ring as opposed to Manning, but great upsets are exciting, unless one is rooting hard for the favorite. The Giants' defense deservess enormous credit and the Manning-Tyree play was one of the greatest clutch plays I have ever seen. I still cannot believe Tyree held onto the ball.

Alex Benesowitz

jaime

do you really need new allegations to prove the pats are cheaters?!?!?!?! how come they were already fined and docked a 1st round pick!!! THAT MEANS THEY ARE GUILTY OF CHEATING IF THEY WERE INNOCENT THEY WOULDN'T HAVE BEEN PUNISHED!!!!!

Andrew Farrar

I disagree, jamie. The defence held New York to just 17 points - you'd have taken that ahead of the game. Okay, they didn't put the Lesser Manning down on that last drive when they had him in their grasp, but that was super determination from the young fellow - like the rest of the Giants he wanted it more.

But if the defence had set him down on his backside, they'd just have been getting the complacent offence of Brady off the hook.

beth

//So, it will “stop” at the same time that Brady is not held up as a hero by the media and Belichick as a genius–that is to say, never.//

so you're just leaving out bill cowher, greg easterbrook, cris collinsworth, steve young, don shula, the new york times, the jaguars' website...? i don't think "the media" has been kissing the patriots' ass for quite a while now. in fact, i think the dismantling of the patriots' pedestal has been done. the point has been made. that's what i'm saying. i'm not sure what'll ever be good enough, though, for the people who are still harping on it.

alex-- all caps doesn’t strengthen your point. nor do tons of exclamation points and question marks.

during week one, a patriots staffer was caught on the sideline videotaping signals. what was illegal about it was him being on the sideline. he *was* caught red-handed, the patriots were fined heavily and punished, and that was months and months ago.

your team just won the super bowl. why are you still fixating on something that happened with the patriots in a game that had nothing to do with your team, months ago, and which has already been resolved by the league? why does it matter? what does it have to do with the game your team played last night? it's like i said, if the patriots are just cheaters, the giants' victory must not mean that much. is that why you can't just celebrate the victory and need to talk conspiracy-theorist crap all over this comments thread?

Alex Benesowitz

beth,

(As a fellow mvn writer for the knicks i understand that these comments might seem as an attack on you and they are not so don't take it personal i am simply venting and happy to gloat that boston finally lost). I am not a giants fan i am a jets fan so that's why i am still bringing that up. This super bowl feels like a new york super bowl win not just a giant super bowl. I am not the only one bringing it up listen to talk radio or read other blogs and you will see this. I know you Pats fans are upset that you just had a heartbreaking loss I understand how it is being a Jet fan ive dealt with plenty. But I mean if any team deserved to lose on the biggest stage as the biggest choke artists in the history of sports it is bill and brady hands down, that's my point.

Alex Benesowitz

Well maybe not brady i take that back i respect the hell out of him. But def belichick deserved this loss.

Andrew Farrar

No, silly fellow, Belichick is the greatest living American and definitely didn't deserve to lose.

Alex Benesowitz

hahahahahahahahah the greatest living American oh man and you wonder why everybody makes fun of boston. What about all the people who died in 9/11 risking their lives? They are the "Greatest Living Americans" hands down.

Alex Benesowitz

i meant to say all the people who risked their lives on 9/11 are the greatest living americans like i said im hung over give me a break lol i know if you are dead you are not in the class of greatest living americans

Andrew Farrar

Why does everyone make fun of Boston?

Mike Boyko

CRY CRY CRY ---- You lost and you cheated at the same time. Karma caught up with you guys. Can't wait to find out about how you cheated for your other three rings!!!!!!

Evan Brunell

"the biggest choke artists in the history of sports"

sorry, that will always and forever be the 04 yanks. no comparison.

Alex Benesowitz

Come on Evan undefeated and u lose in the championship. You might not agree with me but to say there is "no comparison" is just crazy.

FactCheck

The Yankees lost a best of 7 to a Boston team that was every bit as good as them and faced Curt Shilling and Pedro Martinez (the two best pitchers in the AL) in Games 5 and 6. The Giants beat a "dynasty" on their road to a perfect season, not having lost a single game all season and having set all sorts of records on offense. DING DING DING... we *do* have a new winner for the biggest choke of all time.

Andrew Farrar

Don't be silly.

The biggest chokers in professional sports aren't even American, they're Newcastle United from the English Premiership and they managed to throw away a huge lead in the league in 1996. And I support them as well.

curiousgIII

This is only the beginning of the end for the Patriots. In the coming weeks/months more information will be brought to the fore front regarding spygate.

There is too much smoke here...

beth

alex, andrew's a brit, not a bostonian, so try again.

fact check, this is a matter of some opinion, of course, and i'm sure this debate will go on. but there have been three other teams to have an undefeated regular pro football season, and two of them (other than the '72 dolphins) actually lost in the playoffs--in the league championships, not even the SB. so actually, the patriots stack up pretty well against former undefeated regular-season teams in terms of overall outcome.

meanwhile, what happened to the yankees in 04 had never happened in the history of baseball. it was the biggest upset in the history of the sport, and in fact, had only happened twice in any other sport that has 7-game playoff series.

Andrew Farrar

Did you know that a NFL leading offence has never won the super bowl, apparently, according to Mike Carlson on the BBC last evening?

danny

Andrew, if you think Belechick is the greatest living American you have a pathetic existence. IT IS A GAME!!!! I love the Giants but whether they won or lost, we have an energy crisis, economic crisis, global warming, potential widespread war around the world, and you think a drone football coach is the greatest living American. WOW. Maybe you need to go to college and learn about real Americans. I have never heard anything so rediculous. Maybe if he was so great he would have been paying attention to the offense and made some adjustments as Tom Brady was losing his splean. Instead his arrogance resulted in them buying into their own hype. He was sitting with the defense when the offense desperately needed adjustments. NO CHARLIE WEISS perhaps? Greatest American? Hardly. You can tell he even despises himself and would not even stay on the field for the final second (likely so he could throw a challenge flag or file a motion that the game ended incorrectly) GO TO COLLGE. LEARN STUFF.

Andrew Farrar

Oh dear, a colonial who can't spell advising me to go to college.

Now, if you want to discuss the other matters you mention, which mostly begin and end with the worst living American (he's currently residing in your White House) then fair enough.

Sam

Whoa, I just came on here to read what Beth had to say, as I'm a regular reader of her blog. What a bunch of pathetic arguments and pissy comments directed at her. Being born and raised in Massachusetts, I am still shellshocked at the moment, especially since the game ended at 3.10am for me (here in London), and I had less than 3 hours sleep.

But biggest choke artists? Greatest upset ever? Correct me if I'm wrong, but weren't the Giants leading the Pats by 12 points with 19 minutes remaining in a game only 5 weeks ago? No one on the Pats went into this underestimating them. And my Dad is a lifelong Giants fan, they've always been my second team, so I'm certainly not bitter about any of it. Hats off to them, they played out of their skins, and our O-line certainly did us no favors.

And then back to this whole running up the score business: I am no fan of Dan Dierdorf, who I consider quite an idiot, but in a game earlier this season he commented on the whole uproar about the Pats running up the score. He said something along the lines that the fans who come to the games are paying to see the first-stringers, the stars: Brady, Moss, etc...and that these guys are paid to play and score. If anything, the opposing defenses should be embarrassed for not being able to stop them. I can't remember the game, but late on they had a 4th and goal, leading by a lot. They went for the TD and scored it, and Dierdorf said (rightfully) that it would've been a lot more insulting had they kicked a FG (they were leading by 20-something at that point). At least by going for it on 4th they were saying to the D, 'here's your chance -- stop us.'

As others said, yes, they illegally taped the Jets, but yes, they were punished, get over it ffs. They were beaten by a team that wanted it more (as Randy Moss) on the day, they were gracious in defeat, and move on.

I'm still depressed though.

beth

sam, thanks for your support--at least i'll have this thread to refer to when some new yorker brings out the tired old "NY fans are classier than boston fans" chestnut.

Alex Benesowitz

haha beth come on ive heard stories about the things fans in fenway and in foxborough say. Come on you boston fans have been on top of the world talking so much crap about how this is the greatest team ever blah blah blah and it was all shoved back in your face so deal with it. You've had a good couple years in baseball and football congrats. Before that it was about 90 years before the last championship in either sport so take it easy over there

Alex Benesowitz

o yea and im sorry i couldnt tell if he was a brit or a bostonian lol it doesnt really say it when you leave comments

beth

typical NY fan. "yeah, well, i've heard stories about boston fans!" the time-honored "i'm rubber and you're glue" defense. you know what, we're not dealing with stories we may or may not have heard about boston fans here. right now, we're dealing with the way you and other giants fans have documentably acted on this website, today.

and don't give me that "take it easy" baloney like you're suddenly the voice of reason after posting like 15 times with your all caps and exclamation points on this thread. if you're having a change of heart, or don't like the reactions you've gotten, think about why that is instead of telling *me* how to "deal with it".

Just Saying

"....but let’s stop calling the Patriots cheaters."

Yeah,I can think of 500,000 reasons why that is

NEVER going to happen in your (or my) lifetime.

The Patriot Nation got it's due last night.

Andrew Farrar

Okay then, let's hear the 500,000 reasons, if it's not too much trouble.

Alex Benesowitz

hahaha beth ive posted so much cuz i took the day off from work today first of all second of all im sorry you are upset the patriots lost honestly well honestly im not you guys/girls had it coming and if there was ever a day to gloat for new yorkers its today so deal with it honestly it wouldnt have made a difference if i posted LIKE THIS or like this.

ps bolgne not baloney

Jamie

I don't understand how discussing a run that was 2 minutes away from ending 19-0 is shoving "the greatest team ever" in anybody's face. Plain and simple, if the Patriots hang on to win that game, they would have been known as the greatest ever. No shoving or pushing, just fact. But, it didn't happen. C'est la vie.

chargerfan

"i don’t think “the media” has been kissing the patriots’ ass for quite a while now. in fact, i think the dismantling of the patriots’ pedestal has been done."

Nah. You just note all the criticism of them, and take it to heart. I didn't hear a word about it, for example, during the SB post-game show, which would have been a perfect time to twist the knife, in front of a huge audience. And on the other side, you have Aaron Schatz, Bill Simmons, the numerous SI covers, a yahoo article before the SB saying they were the greatest team of all time in ANY sport. etc. Here in SD, the longet feature in the paper about them this week was an article about Tedy Bruschi's work with stroke victims. The Pats took some shit about the cheating, but nothing disproprtionate in relation to how the positives about the team are built up in the media. Some loudmouth FANS harp on it, but that is true of any issue.

Tom

Pats O-line were up late the night before watching Hannah Montana videos....by the way "the golden boy" Brady looks like your average joe when tuck's helmet is in his chest. Giants D-line played a "perfect" game and humanized the machine.

love the gmen

Hey guys....from the giants side

Great game, you are clearly an amazing team. From a giants point a view this is what I saw from the patsies that got me confused.

The usual energetic brady did not smile, nor show any emotion on the sidelines or before the game. Eli went to shake his hand and brady just starred and looked the other way before the game. The whole team was stone cold and ready for Business as the giants were smiling and full of energy. Im from RI so Im forced to watch most pats games and I always see them crazy with passion and laughing and joking even when things went "almost" south. But they were too flat today. My giants came out very very fast and physical ready for a dog fight and the pats looked content with keep 5 guys blocking, not dropping back Watson or Faulk to block.

I was stunned with the non field goal try...seemed to be arrogant in a way. Its the Superbowl you take all the pts you can get. Esp when a team is hitting you as much as they are. Pts are hard to come by

All in all...amazing game, congrats on a memorable season. Gluck in the future, hope we can see an Eli Brady Superbowl again

Just Saying

Andrew Farrar — February 4, 2008 @ 6:27 pm

Okay then, let’s hear the 500,000 reasons, if it’s not too much trouble.

No trouble at all.

With the current exchange rate it's 252,819

reasons.

Andrew Farrar

But surely that fine was levied against the great Bill Belichick and not the Patriot organisation, therefore your logic is flawed.

Matt

read the whole blog post...not sure what the point you were trying to make at the end was...still think you suck.

beth

enlightening feedback, matt, thanks.

Joe

The Pats got caught cheating, they are therefore, cheaters.

We can bitch and moan all we want about what the rest of the country says but Belichick and the videographers made their own bed on this one.

Just Saying

Andrew "therefore your logic is flawed". What are

you going on about you silly wanker?

The Patriots organization (a/k/a "organisation") was

fined $250,000 dollars for taping opposing teams.

Bill Belichick was fined $500,000 for the same

charming episode. As he did not commit this

act (or cause it to be committed) as a private

citizen but as the head coach of the New England

Patriots,I think my logic is just fine.

beth

//The Pats got caught cheating, they are therefore, cheaters.//

the Pats got caught cheating six months ago in the first quarter of one game. all the rest of it--all the character judgments on belichick in the press, the latest rams b.s., the blather from the greg easterbrooks of the world, the freakin' congressional hearing--is the unnecessary crap i was talking about. the patriots cheated, past tense. saying they're cheaters--in other words, by habit, inherently, and continually--is a completely different thing and at this point not supported by anything other than rumor and speculation.

i made no attempt to defend the patriots' behavior against the jets, at the time or since. but bill belichick has been fined and the team has been penalized. when people start talking about coming after past super bowl trophies based on anonymously single-sourced news stories and obsessing over that last single second of the super bowl like it was a crime against humanity when belichick HUGGED the opposing coach before leaving the field, oh, and lumping patriots fans in with this villainous picture that's been painted of the team coach, it's a ridiculous, sanctimonious overreaction.

Andrew Farrar

Just your maths isn't - since surely it should be 750,001 reasons, if you include the lost draft pick.

Mahatma Gandhi says let it go..

A lost draft pick is worth considerably more that a

dollar Andrew.

According to the Oxford English Dictionary,

the term "math" has been in usage in London and the United States since 1890. The first usage of "maths" first occurred as a colloquialism 21 years later. Probably to ditinguish mathematics

from 'math' meaning a Hindu convert.

You haven't seen India as a colony since August

1947,you can drop the "s" now.

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