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March 10, 2008

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Jamie

Beth,

I think you're assessment of personal feelings on this matter are dead-on. Belichick and Pioli have already stated that they never saw any tapes of another team's walk-through practice and never authorized that one be taped. It's basically their word against Walsh's, whether he has a tape or not. Echoing your statement, it's whoever the fans want to believe. Pats fans will back BB, Patriot haters will back Walsh. We'll probably never know exactly what the truth is.

PatsFan33

Yes, I am a Patriots fan and this whole thing makes me sick. But you can't say that, as

Hillary Clinton would put it, "this is the work of a vast right wing conspiracy." Yes, maybe the Pats are not the most popular team, even before we got caught cheating. But to blame this whole thing on just jealousy and thinking that everyone is out just to get back at the Pats Superbowl wins is ridiculous. And it makes me sad to see other Pats fans trying to rationalize this scandal as trivial. It is not. Think of the outrage we would feel if, for example, Miami had been caught cheating, or the Bills. We would be outraged, we would want to know the truth, and we would be justified in doing so. Yes everyone seems to be picking on the Patriots, but they have a legitimate reason to. I used to be a very big Bill Belichick fan. I went to the same college (Wesleyan university) and I took pride in the fact that a person from a little divison III school (where sports was basically a non-

entity compared to academics) could rise to be a head coach in the NFL. Actually, I just found out Mangini went to Wesleyan too lol. Go figure. But I have to denounce Bill Belichick now. I do not buy his "my interpretation of the rules" excuse one bit. And I know that anyone who graduates from Wesleyan has very high reading comprehension skills. We are letting him off the hook if we buy that. Belichick pays great attention to detail and I'm sure he read the several league memos that specifically stated the videotaping rules. If he

did not know it was wrong, then why was Matt Estrella scared poopless and put up such a

fight when he was caught. He knew it was illegal. If Mangini knew it was illegal, I'm sure he knew it while he was an assistant coach under Belichick. He didn't just realize that it was an illegal practice when he took the Jets head coaching vacancy. It was an arrogant move by Belichick. And then for all of you people who say it offerend no advantage, then ask yourself why bother doing it in the first place. You know it's illegal, but you take

that risk anyways? No one buys that either.

Now on to Matt Walsh. Of course the Patriots are gonna do everything in their power to discredit him. It's the only card they could play. The Patriots are running a hit and run smear campaign on him. They have to do this. Any whistle blower is going to have their personal life combed through. It's the first step. Discredit the whistle blower and make

him unbelievable. Why do you think the NFL started investigating his personal life? Because

they wanted to know what color socks he wore? They were digging for dirt, so they could

simply discredit him and win the battle of public opinion. I'm sure the Patriots have hired

expensive lawyers and spin doctors/crisis management teams to weather this storm. If he was so hell bent on revenge, why did he wait over 5 years to say anything or step forward? That

doesn't sound like a man with a vendetta. Yah, he's painted as an unsavory character, but I

know a large majority of people embellish their resumes, or make themselves sound more

important than they are. You could probably nail anyone's resume for some slight untruths.

So what? It's not like he lied about having a medical degree or something. And the blender

incident? Yah that was really dumb, but if you dig in anyone's past, you're gonna find skeletons. I would be pretty pissed if my roommate and girlfriend were having sex on my sheets and linen too. That's totally disrespectful as well as just plain gross. And yes, it's taken a very long time to hammer out a deal where Walsh can finally speak. I'm sure by now, Walsh probably just wished he'd shut his mouth. You can't believe he didn't know this smear campaign was coming. Of course he wants full indemnification. There are so many nuts

out there that are willing to sue. Yes, to the lay person, the deal the NFL originally was

granting looked pretty logical. But to lawyers the actual language is everything. What

exactly is truth? And how do you know who is telling it? Look at Brian Mcnamee. He thinks

he's telling the truth, but so does Roger Clemens. Obviously anything damaging Walsh

testifies to is going to be denied and thus would be untrue and therefore that would give

them grounds to sue. Walsh would probably just love for all this to go away, but Senator

Specter isn't having any of that.

You have to look at this situation from an angle of logic that is untainted by fan loyalty. I know it's very tough to do. What is believable and what is not? Could a team cheat and do everything possible to win even if it's illegal? Yeah of course. The NFL is a business, and they're here to make money. That's the goal. In this case you make money by winning. Businesses lie and cheat all the time. And the Patriots organization is just a business. Why is it so hard for Pats fans to understand this? And the NFL as a whole is here to make money. Roger Goodell has totally mismanaged this spygate situation from the start. If he had just acted in a transparent fashion and actually investigated instead of saying to the

Patriots, hey just admit what you did and we'll call it even, this story never would have exploded like it did. If Matt Walsh does have the "walkthrough" video, or any other illegal taping that was not originally accounted for, then we must accept our punishment and in my opinion Belichick should be immediately fired. I'm sure most Pats fans will say, oh he taped it on his own or something as ridiculous and unbelievable. We will make up all sorts of excuses no matter how crazy. Yes we will blame the rest of the league for the vast

"right wing err anti-Pats conspiracy." Everyone is out to get us. Whatever. No matter how

ludicrous it may be. Maybe Al Qaeda paid Matt Walsh to illegally tape other teams practices

so he could embarrass and bring down those infidel Patriots. Who knows. Maybe that will be

my new justification if Walsh does indeed have the Rams walkthrough. But sometimes you just

have to apply Occam's razor, the simplest, most plausible explanation is true. However,

until he produces that tape, we're in the clear.

Patrick Patterson

I am a pretty hardcore Pats hater. I have been ever since January of 2002. Now that my disclaimer is out of the way, on to the meat of this comment.

It seems to me like the NFL rushed though things the first time and destroying the evidence makes absolutely NO sense to me. I look forward to hearing what Walsh has to say, and do take the Patriot's assertions about him with a grain of salt. I would say more, but Patsfan33 said it much better than I.

beth

Patsfan33, if you think I'm trivializing this, you have misunderstood me. If there is credible evidence of further wrongdoing on the Patriots part, I will not defend them any more than I have ever defended Belichick when it comes to SpyGate.

But there's been a lot more to this than simply the evidence and its punishment, or justified outrage. There's also been a lot of rumor, innuendo, supposition and assumption. There have been ambiguous or unsupported claims that have been seized on as truth by people who already dislike the team.

In no way did I mean to say that just because that's happened, that all of the charges are false or trivial. But it also has happened, and as a Pats fan I find BOTH the wrongful actions of Belichick and the unsubstantiated (so far) piling on distasteful.

Football  Matt Walsh, the NFL and the coming storm

[...] Beth wrote a fantastic post today on “Matt Walsh, the NFL and the coming storm”Here’s ONLY a quick extractBrace yourself, if youre a Patriots fan: were about to endure a new, fresh round of Spygate, and no matter which way you slice it, if youre on the side of the Patriots, its not going to be a happy thing. … [...]

Super Bowl Freaks For Big Football Fans  Blog Archive  Matt Walsh, the NFL and the com

[...] unknown wrote an interesting post today onHere’s a quick excerptThis is if the tapes Walsh claims to possess from his time with the Patriots contain evidence that he videotaped the Rams final walkthrough before the 2002 Super Bowl. If this is indeed produced, and Belichick is found to have lied to … Read the rest of this great post here [...]

Johnny Boy

Has anyone picked up a copy of 19-0: The Historic Championship Season of the Unbeatable Patriots yet? You can catch it in the fictional section in any bookstore. It's a great bedtime read.

David H.

Sucks For Patriots fans everywhere. Too bad for Brady and Co.

Andrew Farrar

Bill Belichick is innocent and I'd still let him marry my sister, if I had a sister.

The fact that this other character is seeking such "protection" means everything he says will be just balderdash and piffle to be ignored by anyone with sense.

Chip

Patsfan33: You went to great length to try to tell us that you are really a Pats fan, but have issues right now. Does it perhaps make sense that Walsh waited until what he thought was a good time to let his secret out? Come on, the timing speaks for itself. This clearly shows vendetta. Here's a message to Pats haters, or should I say Pats Haters, as this is surely becoming a club for those who cry over their teams' losses. You are still jealous. Any statement you make to the contrary makes you look foolish. You would love it if your team went to the Super Bowl five time in twelve years.

PatsFan33

Beth I wasn't singling you out for anything. You have mostly been fair about this, though in one article you seemed to say that because the Patriots lost the Superbowl, then Spygate should just go away.

And Chip, you're just another example of insane logic. The timing shows vendetta? Gimme a break. If I had a vendetta, I would have come out with the information right after I was fired - especially after the team had just won the superbowl. Heck I would even have blackmailed the Patriots into giving me my job back. Why wait over 5 years? And why didn't Walsh contact the NFL league office during its so-called "investigation" if he was so hell bent on getting revenge? Bottom line is Walsh had so many opportunities to burn his former employer, but he didn't. The story had to finally be broken by ESPN investigative reporter Mike Fish and the New York Times to track down this guy in Hawaii. That does not sound like a man with a vendetta. He ramained quiet until people started asking him questions. And even then he still hasn't specifically admitted to any Patriots wrongdoing. I think most people know who the one being foolish here is.

Mike Brown

PatsFan33 has made the most sensible argument of this case that I've heard. The man deserves credit for speaking the truth.

beth

hmm. you write about 3000 somewhat sarcastic words in response to the post i wrote, but you're not singling me out? who *were* you talking to then?

at any rate, once again, i feel you're oversimplifying something i said. in that post after the super bowl i said that all the people who wanted to tell me that *every* patriots accomplishment *ever* was fraudulent and that the patriots are rampant, habitual cheaters, could look at this as evidence that this is not the case.

once again, i do not defend 'spygate' if by 'spygate' you're referring to the concrete allegations and punishments leveled as a result of the jets game in week 1 this past season, or any *credible evidence* that comes out of further wrongdoing by the patriots. but the speculation / assumption / sweeping accusation side of things, the "you only won any super bowls ever because your team cheated all the time" was what i was attacking there. and i still don't accept that, not until i see evidence that that's the case and not just the sour grapes so many people seem to have.

at this point i feel like i've made essentially this point four times, twice in posts and twice in these comments. maybe i'm not getting it across well, but i don't know how else i can express it to you. so if we're still in disagreement / misunderstanding, then we'll have to just let it be.

ellie5111

when you cheat you win correct? then why hasn't the patriots cheating won every game including superbowls since 2000 that is what cheating guarantees.Everyteam has its dirty laundry but to crucify the patroits is ridiculoss, and that is what the media is doing including the worst offense the boston globe who should be out of the news business. I for one will not subscribe to them and if everyone follows my lead maybe good journalism is not far behind. I am tired of the media telling me who to like, dislike and who to vote for. Keep your opinions out of the news. If everyone hates the patriots as i am reading about then they should look at themselves and find out what is missing in their lives. I love the game of football and I love to watch the patroits I do not hate other football teams I just enjoy the patroits. I would like spygate to end no only for the patroits but for other teams as well. I was dishearted when the patroits took the field in Hawaii and the people boo. how smallminded Hawaii people must be and I am glad I don't live there. Now people whether your a fan or not of the patriots lets grow up and enjoy the game of football and pray that no player gets injured or worst because we love the game and every fan would like to see their team win. What BB did was wrong and they punished him and a good team what do people want blood?? whatever happens I will always be a greatful fan and if the NFL try to take away what the patroits have accompanist I will start a pettion and make sure every sponser that supported the NFL decision was boycotted. I for one am tired of spygate and would like to see jr seau return as newengland patriot as well as ty law and Maloney

plsjustbehonest

Ahh Andrew...but would you trust him alone with your wife??

Andrew Farrar says:

March 11th, 2008 at 6:02 pm

Bill Belichick is innocent and Id still let him marry my sister, if I had a sister.

The fact that this other character is seeking such protection means everything he says will be just balderdash and piffle to be ignored by anyone with sense.

Andrew Farrar

plsjustbehonest, I'll be honest with you - sadly, no one will have me, so I haven't a wife. But if I did have, yes, I'd trust young Belichick with her and more to the point, I'd trust her.

Yvonne

"sadly, no one will have me"

Perhaps they would if you asked.

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